Widespread Panic: Tickling The Truth

By: Dennis Cook

Widespread Panic by Eden Batki

There’s an oft-quoted (and misquoted) line from Henry David Thoreau‘s Walden: “I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life.” Widespread Panic surely embodies that lusty, meaty sense of purpose, especially if you expand the quote to the lines that directly follow it:

“…to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms, and, if it proved to be mean, why then get the whole and genuine meanness of it, and publish its meanness to the world; or if it were sublime, to know it by experience, and be able to give a true account of it in my next excursion.”

Within Panic’s corridors lies the tangled and tender bathed in the light of truth. They are a bastion of hope for lovers of thinking person’s rock ‘n’ roll, especially if they like a little BBQ and whiskey with their philosophizing. The part of Thoreau’s quote that’s often overlooked is how messy life is in his formulation. Panic doesn’t miss that, and even revels in the greasy grab of it all. On some base level, WSP is about personal and creative freedom, doing things their own way for good or bad, so it’s fitting their new album is titled Free Somehow (arriving February 12 on Widespread Records).

Their tenth studio album since debuting in 1988 with Space Wrangler, Free Somehow is the first recording session for guitarist Jimmy Herring and their second time at bat with producer Terry Manning (Led Zeppelin, ZZ Top, George Thorogood). We had the good fortune to sit down with the beatifically grizzled John Bell to discuss studio work versus the live experience, Herring’s growing role in the band, the wisdom of Col. Bruce Hampton and much more.

JamBase: One of the things about hard touring bands is that their studio albums are frequently just time markers, a set of songs to add to their setlists, many of which may already be familiar to fans. I never get that sense with Widespread Panic. You seem very serious about your studio time.

JB by Michael Saba

John Bell: Oh yeah, we love going into the studio. It provides a lot of balance in the songwriting and performing worlds. We enjoy being on the road a lot, and there’s a great luxury to being able to play the songs and leave them out there just the way they were. Then you go to the studio and you get to feed that hunger for, I don’t know if I’d call it perfection, but we get to linger over a song and mess with it in a studio kind of way. It’s like the difference between doing quick sketches and sitting down to get all the colors just the way you want them in a painting.

JamBase: For some reason, my mind always goes to sculpture with studio work, setting something in marble or metal. That’s different than the ephemeral nature of live music, where you put the thing out there and then it’s gone.

John Bell: Well, there you go. It’s a balance thing, too. The two worlds within a world feed each other, and it’s nice to sit down with someone like Terry [Manning] or John Keane, to have an outsider involved. There’s a whole new batch of jokes [laughs]. It’s very helpful to have another pair of ears and ideas that aren’t in the thick of things with band relationships.

Something about that extra set of ears allows a conversation to happen about what’s not working that wouldn’t happen under other circumstances.

But it’s based on the same stuff in the way we trust each other as band members. We can have our own differences or idiosyncrasies within the band but when an outsider’s around it’d be like a big gang up, don’t mess with my brother kind of thing. With that in mind, there is a trust factor that has to enter into it that’s recognized, earned and mutual. Somebody as talented as John or Terry Manning, well, we need to earn their trust, too, because they’ve seen it all.

It’s great to have that kind of wisdom imparted to your music. You’re borrowing their life experience when you work with guys like that.

Jimmy Herring by Michael Saba

It’s hip. They’ve got really cool tricks that’ll make you go, “Wow.” It’s really fun in the studio. There’s a lot of seriousness but also a lot of joking around, and a lot of watching people bring all their strong points together into the mix. That’s where it really shows where everyone’s got a different gig where they’re really strong. I’m amazed by the way Jimmy Herring plays guitar.

Playing with you guys in the studio has brought out a new side of him.

I’m hoping that he’s getting to know us, and we’re getting to know him, and in so doing we get to rediscover ourselves individually in each other’s company. That helps the musical contribution take on that little spark.

He’s such a gifted player that it would be easy for him to overplay but he’s so incisive on Free Somehow. He seems to know exactly what needs to be done on each piece.

Yeah, I like him, too {laughs].

[Laughs] Sometimes it’s best just to cut to it! He’s got a daunting task integrating himself into the huge Widespread Panic catalog. I just spoke to Luther Dickinson and he told me that seeing the size of the Panic songbook made him feel less daunted by The Black Crowes songbook he’s learning.

There’s a bunch of songs, probably 200 that stay in fairly heavy rotation. Man, another thing is Jimmy’s work ethic, and he’s already figured out what works for him. He’s right there applying himself, not only knowing the tunes but also helping the songs come to life and adding his own signature to them.

Continue reading for more with John Bell…

I approach guitar in a WAY different way than most folks do. I think of it as creating shapes and movement and punctuation. That’s my role. The traditional term for it is rhythm guitar player. –John Bell

Photo of JB by Joanna Kleine

I’d guess there’s some pressure or inclination, subconscious even, to play the songs the way Houser played them. What songs, if any, have changed for the band since Jimmy came in?

Widespread Panic by Michael Saba

We’ve always been champions of letting the tunes change, and that’s what keeps us sane. We’re not out there playing the same song night after night. The song is a memorable place, like a spot in Central Park, but when you visit it there’s going to be some familiar memories and some new occurrences. I can tell you what I see with Jimmy is he recognizes things easily, without explanation or anyone telling him what to do. Most of these tunes have signature, thematic parts that are inherent to the tune. So, he grabs onto that, learns it, incorporates it. Then there’s the other places we’re known for, especially in the live situation, where off the cuff communication takes place, and Jimmy’s always ready to do that. The thing that’s really neat – and I’m sure Mikey’s smiling about it – is Jimmy listens so carefully. He’s visited albums that I haven’t listened to in a decade. He’s sitting there being so passionate, like in a discovery mode where he’s taken by a wild tone or a melodic idea that makes him say, “I wonder where he got that?” It’s almost the revelation of an observer listening to some of our old stuff. He’s basically trying to learn the songs but he’s also getting in there and catching a huge appreciation for them. It’s good energy to be around.

I got to watch you up close at the Paramount Theatre in Oakland last year. There’s real instrumental sparks between you and Jimmy. Has playing guitar changed for you having this new person to the right of you?

I approach guitar in a WAY different way than most folks do. I think of it as creating shapes and movement and punctuation. That’s my role. The traditional term for it is rhythm guitar player.

But I don’t think that’s really what YOU do with the instrument.

JB by Joanna Kleine

For me, it’s fitting into the conversation in a way that I’ve basically taught myself to play guitar. There’s some percussiveness involved, and this goes against the grain with 80-90 percent of the rock ‘n’ roll guitar players I observe, but I definitely don’t think it’s my role to sit back while somebody else just plays a solo [laughs]. I’ve never imagined that being the way music goes. I see so many bands do it that I’ll admit I probably wouldn’t be the top vote getter with this philosophy [laughs].

This attitude speaks to the general dynamics in Widespread Panic, where there’s a really lively conversation going on. I’m always impressed that you have that many people going at once but you don’t talk over each other. It doesn’t descend into chatter. It’s a conversation, a roundtable discussion happening onstage.

That’s what I appreciate about it. I want to be careful not to say one way is good and another way isn’t. But, I do notice this way is the one we discovered early on satisfied everybody’s musical tastes and hunger. So, if I’m looking to listen to music I pretty much have to go into the jazz realm to hear that kind of spontaneous communication, where folks are listening and playing off each other and having a musical conversation. We’re working in a little more primitive area with rock ‘n’ roll but…

…but nothing. I think it’s a fallacy to say rock is innately a lesser art form than jazz or any other genre.

[Laughs] Well, all right.

One of the things that drew me into Panic is your singing, which I liken much more to a jazz vocalist. It’s in your phrasing, tone and the way you actively engage the music using your voice as another instrument as well as a tool to get the words across.

Thank you. Hmmm, I do think I approach it differently, like with the music. I will compulsively keep searching for ways to either express myself differently in the same song just to be different than the way we played it the night or month before, or because a song is feeling different at that moment and I need to be ready to adjust and express it the way it feels most accurately expressible [laughs].

As a listener, I find myself engaging with your take on singing, and I think the way the band interacts with you is somewhat different than the norm. You’re not a traditional frontman with the rest of the guys moving behind you. There’s more overlap in Widespread Panic, and they play off of where you are emotionally on a given night. If you’re really feeling it as a singer then I’ll see Dave [Schools] really put his shoulder into it, which in turn sparks off Todd [Nance].

JB by Michael Saba

At times it can start with one person’s inspiration but you usually don’t get to that place – and we feel really grateful when we find a place for take-off – unless everybody is feeling it. You’re picking up on a communal vibe. It’s easier to get there together. There are nights when one or two of us are more excited than the others, have less on our minds or something.

Doing this as often as you do it’s just natural to have some ebb and flow.

Hey, even Tiger Woods misses a cut once in a while! Not much though!

You’ve got a pretty good track record yourself, John. You’ve been doing this for a long time. Hell, you’ve broken the two-decade mark at this point!

Yeah, it’s pretty freaky. That is the product of a one-day-at-a-time attitude. When we started we were barely feeding ourselves. Every day we thought, “Wow, this is cool,” even though it was make believe. Pretty soon, we got a little organized. We had a schedule and a few regular gigs coming through and we were able to sustain.

It’s built into something you could never premeditate. You can’t invent a fan base like you have.

Fans invent themselves. I think they’re drawn to what they dig, and I don’t think it’s just the band. I’m glad they include the band in the music but a lot of it is they enjoy the scene in general, hanging out with their friends, enjoying the same type of music. [Pauses] I worry about the word “fan.” If you get in there and talk to the people – I don’t get to go out in the crowd anymore but during the controlled meet-and-greets – you’ve got some freaky cool people out there doing great things in their own personal endeavors, in their families, careers and creatively. So, I’m more comfortable saying I’m a fan of what they got going on.

Continue reading for more with John Bell…

The thing that’s really neat – and I’m sure Mikey’s smiling about it – is Jimmy listens so carefully. He’s visited albums that I haven’t listened to in a decade. He’s sitting there being so passionate, like in a discovery mode where he’s taken by a wild tone or a melodic idea. –John Bell

Photo of Widespread Panic by Eden Batki

Creative people are drawn to other creative people. When you feel like other people are engaging with the world and trying to transmute it artistically you want to be around them.

JoJo Hermann by M. Saba

I make it a point to stay apolitical, especially now that we’re in the thick of it with the primaries and stuff. But, you’re just sitting there, wanting someone to tell you something and to know that it’s real. Being able to deliver a message with as little of a hidden agenda as possible, that’s what I’m drawn to when I go to see bands. You get somebody like Bruce Hampton where he’s just playing because he wants to or he has to, but there’s nothing else beyond what he’s doing musically. He’s performing. In my world, he’s so genuine. He’s this crazy bluesman, but it comes through in this slightly weird way.

He spits wisdom quite casually, too. I got to know him a bit through The Codetalkers, and many musicians they’ve picked up crucial tools from him. I’d listen to him thinking, “You just know shit, don’t you?”

[Laughs]. We got to work with him early on. We weren’t really on a road but there are many roads to travel and he was a great example of keeping ego out of it. That’s one of the heaviest tools we got from watching early Bruce Hampton and the Aquarium Rescue Unit.

And you’ve got one of the graduates of Hampton’s boot camp in your band now. Widespread Panic has a good nose for collaborators in general, like Vic Chesnutt and Jerry Joseph.

I’d add Daniel Hutchens and Eric Carter from Bloodkin as another great pair. It’s kind of like you’ve got your own world and the filters you see it through – your own reality and your own collection of illusions – which can be very interesting and unique to you. Then you cross paths with somebody who’s put together this whole other collection. Say you run into a Vic Chesnutt or Jerry Joseph or Bloodkin, and you say, “What an interesting world!” Again, there’s an absence of ego and creative voyeurism where you just want to be pals. It’s like being a kid in the neighborhood when you’re seven-years-old, and some kid from Santa Fe moves in. Suddenly there’s a whole different set of rules and ways of looking at things, and his parents are freaky, but there’s a vibe going on where you appreciate the uniqueness of this person. That opens up other worlds to you. That’s why I’m very grateful to being exposed to those guys and their songwriting abilities.

You get to inhabit their worlds for a little while when you take on their songs. There’s something exciting about crawling inside an interesting person’s mind for a few minutes.

Dave Schools by Michael Saba

It’s the same thing with a lot of the covers we do, like the Talking Heads, except we don’t know them personally. You get to go play with somebody else’s toys. It’s really a gas. Beyond just listening to the music, you get to experience it kind of from the inside.

I don’t think you guys play any Steely Dan but there’s a great late ’70s pop-jazz vibe that’s reminiscent of them on Free Somehow, especially “Angels On High.”

Todd was probably most affected by Steely Dan but there ain’t a naysayer in the house. Crap, the ’70s would have really sucked without them. They’ve got a lot of good angles.

I want to go back to what you were saying about studio stuff affecting live stuff, and vice versa. How has that back-and-forth gone with Free Somehow?

As a whole, because of where we are in the now, it’s the most important album we’ve done [laughs]. It was really important to have the studio experience with Jimmy because that’s such a huge part of it. Not just playing live, not just regurgitating old tunes, but getting in and writing tunes together and having fun in the studio format. That’s where this album fits in as a band in our evolutionary process.

There’s a different vibe to some of the material on the new album, almost as if you’re throwing light out into the world because there is so much darkness.

God, I hope we were doing that already [laughs]. We don’t mind getting bluesy and dark either. We definitely don’t want to pretend we’re in denial or pretend we’re not wrestling with our own demons on a day-to-day basis. Every album tends to be kind of a snapshot of where you are collectively as a band in your co-creative consciousness at that time. Personally, it’s my same subconscious that’s bubbling through as I’m putting the final touches on all the songs. That’s gonna create a common thread. Musically and mood-wise, everyone’s in a consistent mode, at least during the recording of a record, which is unique to that point in time. So, it’ll be different than the album before just based on that. It’s not like with our albums we say, “We gotta create a country album,” in order to achieve a whole different feel. If there’s a different kind of feel that comes out it’s inherent to where we are as a band at that time. Hopefully, there’s always a little glimmer of hope in there.

The way Free Somehow roars out of the gate suggests an extra portion of positivity running through this record.

That’s hip. A song like “Walk On The Flood” is a little more to the point, specific and not leaning on metaphor as much. It’s not as soft an approach, but if you’re saying it sounds more positive then I’m all for it!

You still sound tough as hell. It’s something more intangible I’m picking up on.

We’ve got Terry to thank a lot for that. We’ve been doing this a while but I think we’re probably still just honing our abilities to get to the point where we can put a song together.

It’s called craftsmanship.

Yeah, I reckon [laughs].

JB by Michael Saba

Widespread Panic tour dates available here…

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