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Words by: Benji Feldheim
Sam Holt by Bob Bayne |
Sam Holt, guitarist/vocalist for Outformation appreciates a wide array of sounds. While he and his band are deeply rooted in guitar-driven southern rock, they mix in heavy doses of revelatory hymns, dirty funk, and emotional, insightful songwriting.
While growing up in and around Chattanooga, Tennessee, Holt began playing music at parties, often with bassist Grady Upchurch. Years later, they came back together as Outformation. But at the time, Holt had an atypical day job.
As guitar tech for Widespread Panic, Holt was living the dream; he had somehow managed to turn his passion into a career. Yet as a musician, the job placed him into a backup role. Working closely with Michael Houser, Holt developed a powerful bond with the guitarist. At one point, impressed by his guitar skills, Houser told Holt to stop teching and play more music. Following Houser's death in 2002, Holt took the words to heart and began to devote his time to Outformation.
Outformation |
After a few years of struggling to find the right pieces, Outformation recently solidified their line up with CR Gruver on keyboards, completing the ranks of Holt, Upchurch, Lee Schwartz on drums and vocals, percussionist Jeff "Birdogg" Lane, and guitarist Clarke Keown. In perhaps the grandest statement of Outformation's potential, Holt will be leaving Panic's staff to dedicate his time and energy solely to Outformation sometime in the near future.
Holt held up finishing Panic's stage set-up to speak with JamBase about life on the road, playing Zeppelin covers, meeting girls, important lessons learned from Houser, and the growing fury that is Outformation.
JamBase: What have you been up to?
Sam Holt with Widespread Panic by Jake Krolick |
Sam Holt: I'm with Panic working as guitar tech for one more tour, and working through the transition, helping out as much as I can during this time. That's what I'm doing right now. So far it's been a good experience; everyone's having a good time.
JamBase: What are the plans for Outformation?
Sam Holt: On this tour we're doing a couple shows with Panic and a few after-shows. We're still keeping it going pretty hard core over here. We've got a bunch of new material we're trying to hone down into demos. We'll probably start recording late this year or early next year, and probably get a record out, hopefully by the first half of next year. Other than that, just workin' on dates. Got a few shows in November after the Panic, some in December, and then we'll start booking a February run through Colorado and mountain towns. We're trying to go nationwide – go all the way to the West Coast and then come back. We've been to Colorado and Texas several times now, but we'd like to do some stuff in the Midwest, and maybe some stuff in the Northwest. Also go to Southern California and San Francisco.
JamBase: Tell me about the new Outformation material. Any new approaches?
Sam Holt :: Outformation
By Tobin Voggesser |
Sam Holt: We've got about ten or so new tunes since the last record. We just really enjoy playing 'em live and seeing what's gonna happen. Get all the parts worked out. There's one called "Dark Severinsen." That's a tough one. There's one called "Wind," which is more of a ballad. Our bass player Grady wrote the music and I wrote the words and just went back and forth until it grew. We're trying to work all the parts out and whittle it down to the essence of the songs. When we get to the studio, we should have a good idea of what we're going to do. We've got a few covers worked out to spice things up. One is a Shooter Jennings tune; that's a kick-ass tune. There's another one we've talked about but haven't played yet, and that's a cover of "Southern Nights." It's an Allen Toussaint song made famous by Glen Campbell. Just stuff like that, man. Gotta keep it fresh, can't get complacent.
Can you walk me through how Outformation puts new songs together?
Well... it comes in all sorts of ways. Somebody might walk in with a riff. A few times someone's come in with a riff and a chord change. Someone else will go, "How about this for the bridge?" And then maybe I'll go, "You know, I have some words that will fit over that." Once in a while, someone will bring a song in that's almost already done, and we just tweak it and add our own individual input into that. Whatever makes us us. But you know, it comes from all angles. Songs are not the easiest thing to do, at least for me. I'll take it wherever I can get it.
You mentioned "Dark Severinsen" is a hard one. Why is that?
It's real heavy. It's got a lot of distortion guitar, and it's kinda up-tempo, more of a rocker. It's an in-your-face kinda thing. Usually whoever sings the song probably wrote the words. Other than that, it can be a myriad of things as far as how a song comes to us. There are all these little pieces that get brought in, and we all do our thing to it.
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I think it was just the experience of growing up, just getting older - experiencing greater happiness and greater sadness, greater loss... stuff you don't experience when you're twenty. A lot of heavy stuff happened in my late twenties. I think just getting older. For me, it's experiencing life.
-Sam Holt on developing as a songwriter |
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Photo by Chelsea Thom
What first got you into music?
I remember when I was a little kid really liking Elvis. I'm talkin' like four or five years old. I remember we used to have an eight-track player, and I used to play an Elvis eight-track over and over. I would get up on the fireplace at my parents' friends' house and pantomime his moves. Then I saw "Song Remains the Same" on MTV when I was like twelve, on Christmas Day. It just blew me away. I was like "Holy cow!" I didn't know that shit was goin' on out there. Then in high school I was into Zeppelin and all that stuff. I started playing guitar when I was sixteen or seventeen, just messin' around. I really wasn't taking it seriously. At college I experienced the whole jam band thing, the Grateful Dead and Widespread Panic scene. It was another whole area I had no idea existed. Once I got into that and started seeing a lot of live music, I really wanted to be a part of it in any way I could. At first working on my own material, and then I wound up teching and doing whatever. I played in bands before. And finally, a few years ago, I was like, "We've got an opportunity to be in a real, working band. Let's do it." That's been the progression so far.
When did you first start writing songs?
Outformation by Bob Bayne |
Probably when I was twenty; but those were really bad songs. I don't feel like I got comfortable with songwriting until Outformation formed. With experience and growing up, I had stuff to write about, and it just wasn't stupid [anymore]. It's off the cuff now. It gets pretty heavy about sensitive feelings. It took a while for me to write a song I'm happy with.
Did anything in particular help you to get in touch with that kind of songwriting?
No. I think it was just the experience of growing up, just getting older - experiencing greater happiness and greater sadness, greater loss... stuff you don't experience when you're twenty. A lot of heavy stuff happened in my late twenties. I think just getting older. For me, it's experiencing life.
How did you first meet the guys from Widespread?
Michael Houser |
I was a fan and met them just by going to shows, but I didn't really hang out with them. What really did it was, my roommate from Tennessee State University had just become their production manager. His name is Chris. A friend of his was gonna step down. Two weeks after Chris started, Panic needed a guitar tech, and he called me up and said, "Do you want to work for Panic?" I said, "Yes. Of course I do." Things just took off from there. That was 2000... or maybe '99.
I know there could be a lot of answers to this, but what would you say are some key lessons you learned while working with Mike Houser?
Well... I swear the thing I learned more than anything was how to treat people. He would just go so far out of his way to be nice to someone, even if he didn't know them. I can think of so many times when people would come up to him and be like, "Mike! Mike! Can you do this? Sign this?" and he would always be nice to them and listen to what they had to say. Seeing the way that guy dealt with people just blew me away. And then also, just being a good person. He was also a guy who would really stand up for what he believed in. If there was an argument and he felt strongly, he wouldn't back down. I'm sure I've taken something like that from him. Musically, I can't really put into words what I learned. It just kinda melded into me and comes out when we play. Definitely listening. He was a real good listener. He would listen to other people and react to what they did. He and John [Bell] had such a special connection. They could really sense where the jam was going. For me, to witness that firsthand, them pulling these things off, whether it was a jam or a song they've done before was just exciting. He also knew when not to play. A lot of times he would lay out too.
Going back to Outformation, in your bio it says you and Grady Upchurch go back some years.
Outformation by Tobin Voggesser |
We went to high school in Chattanooga. We knew each other from going to parties but we went to different high schools. When we graduated from high school, we started hanging out more and playing guitars, stuff like that. We were in a band in Chattanooga like when we were nineteen or twenty. I've known him for a long time. He's one of my brothers.
What was it like when you two first started playing together?
Aw man, it was like, "Let's do those riffs from Pink Floyd's 'Money' and maybe those chicks will come on over (laughs)." Just at parties, we'd be like, "Play 'Tangerine' by Zeppelin, and we'll get some drinks and keg beer and try to talk to chicks." Parties. Chicks. That's what we were doing back then, when we first started playing together.
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That Telecaster is the one Mike Houser used to play. I actually bought it... What I use, which I borrowed from Mike, is a tremolo effect. It bends the pitch of a note down. I use that quite a bit... My amp, rig, and cabinet are all Mike's. He gave me that stuff. I'm real familiar with that set up, worked on it forever.
-Sam Holt |
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Photo by Bob Bayne
When you two found each other again and you decided to play seriously, what made you want to do it?
We just connect. We would get a jam going and just feel real good about it afterwards. Or take a song that we've played twenty times and just hit better than we did before, just kept improving. I'd get off on him getting off and vice versa. It's just a really cool thing to be able to do that when you've known someone for so long. We're great friends, spent tons of time together in the van. I don't think I'd be nearly as happy about it if we weren't that tight. It's a really good relationship, but I'm not saying we don't get mad at each other. That's just how it is - life. Just playing with that guy, I mean he'll lead too. It's really cool to make somebody smile.
What did Lee bring in when you started playing with him?
Lee Schwartz by Tobin Voggesser |
He brought a whole different vibe. He's from New Orleans, grew up there. He was into funk and that second-line shuffle thing down there. We were all about the same age - just kids. If I had to put into words what he brought... Grady and I are more rock and he swings. That's a good combination. If everyone swings or rocks, it'll get boring.
Going on to Birdogg and Clark, can you tell me how they affected the sound as a whole?
Birdogg comin' in added a whole different color to things. We never really sounded like that before he got on. He filled in a space that was lacking. Lee and him seem to have a really good connection. Also, he's just a great guy. It's great to have him on the team. If you're on a football team, you definitely want him on your side. He's always giving one hundred percent. He'll be the guy who'll stick to it until the last play of the game. That might sound weird, but that's how he is.
Clark & CR by Bob Bayne |
Clark I've known for a long time, since high school. He takes the pressure off me. His rhythm guitar lines don't take up too much space, which is a good thing. Overplaying just kills me. I hate to do it. CR Gruver's been playing with us as well. He's pretty much committed to playing with us now. He's a keyboard player from Denver, and he's just awesome. Me and him really feed off of each other. I push him and he pushes me. He definitely makes me play better, I'll say that. CR has a great feel. He's the guy who'll point out technical aspects of notes played. I don't really know that stuff, but he brings that element. He's classically trained and will play Mozart, but he also rocks out. We'll all be lookin' over at him bangin' on the keys! He brings a lot we wouldn't have otherwise.
When you guys are playing live, how do you guys communicate when changes to the music are made?
Outformation by Bob Bayne |
Eye contact is a pretty big deal with us, especially to get in and out of a jam or, like you say, to go somewhere else. Or someone could just almost relax and chill out, and usually the band will also chill out. No one really wants to override anyone else. When we're playing our best, and we're really listening to each other, someone will sonically key everyone else in or play a chord differently than where we've been going. Or we'll just look at each other and say, "Go to G." To come out of a jam someone will just count, "One, two, three" and we're out of the jam! It just depends. The eye contact helps.
Looking up some of the gear you use, you were quoted as saying that some people don't want to deal with all the stuff in the Telecaster you use with Strat equipment on the inside. What are some ways you use the equipment to make it sound the way you want?
Holt & Keown :: Outformation
By Tobin Voggesser |
That Telecaster is the one Mike Houser used to play. I actually bought it. I don't use it that differently than a lot of people. What I do use, which I borrowed from Mike, is a tremolo effect. It bends the pitch of a note down. I use that quite a bit. It has some pickups in it that usually aren't in a Telecaster. I leave it on one setting. I'm not really branching out, but I do use it to get the hottest output signal I can get, they're Humbucker pickups. As far as making what is my sound, I don't use a pick. Mainly it's my thumb and my first finger a little. I borrowed that from some country players. My amp, rig, and cabinet are all Mike's. He gave me that stuff. I'm real familiar with that set up, worked on it forever. I would hate to see that stuff not going to use. I'm happy to use it. Sometimes it does sound like him. I'm not trying to hide from that. I feel like I'm getting to the point where it sounds a lot like me too.
Was Lee affected by Katrina?
He didn't have family down there. They had moved to North Carolina before it hit. He has a lot of buddies down there who lost a bunch of stuff. I think anyone from New Orleans feels that sense of loss, after all that decimation. We've played down there once since the hurricane. It was pretty cool seeing folks down there. It was last March or so. One of our new songs mentions... not directly. We don't actually mention Katrina in it, but it's addressed in one of our new songs.
Hopes for the future?
Next year, I just want to work constantly. Get this new record out. Keep our momentum. Play good music. Improve as musicians, and hopefully the rest will take care of itself. Obviously that's an idealistic way to put it, but I really feel like we're at the point where we are pleased with what's goin' on. Like we're doing something right. People seem to be responding. Things are just starting to grow. I'll tell you a funny story, even though it probably doesn't answer that question. On our last tour, one night... I can't even remember where it was, there were a bunch of people in the dressing room. Our tour manager walked back and was like, "Alright, these people gotta go. Hey, y'all gotta go. Get outta here." For a minute it was a downer like, "Aw damn, people are gettin' kicked out. Someone's gettin' yelled at." But then, later that night, I was thinking about it, and for where we are right now, that's a cool problem to have. That's just funny to me. I mean some folks are getting all upset, but in my little world, it's the kind of problem that made me laugh!
OUTFORMATION TOUR DATES
11.03 | Antone's | Austin, TX (Post Widespread Panic show)
11.09 | Continental Club | Houston, TX
11.10 | Granada Theater | Dallas, TX (Opening for Umphree's McGee)
11.11 | Stubb's BBQ | Austin, TX (Opening for Umphree's McGee)
11.13 | Zydeco | Birmingham, AL
11.14 | Jupiter Bar & Grill | Tuscaloosa, AL
11.15 | Proud Larry's | Oxford, MS
11.16 | The Mercy Lounge | Nashville, TN
11.17 | The Tabernacle | Atlanta, GA (Opening for Umphree's McGee)
11.25 | Gottrocks | Greenville, SC
12.08 | Maple Leaf | New Orleans, LA
12.09 | Maple Leaf | New Orleans, LA
JamBase | Worldwide
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