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"I always thought, 'Well if I can't get a job playing the guitar or writing songs, I can get a job as an engineer.' So when I started making my own records I just sort of applied my engineering deal, and sometimes I wouldn't even hire anybody else to do the engineering, I'd do all that." |
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--J.J. Cale |
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It seems like they could do something, but the kinda guy who has any power in the political system, it doesn't seem like he does what the people want him to do... or maybe he does, I don't know. Politics and religion are strange subjects.
Now also sort of in line with this, the next song after "The Problem" is "Homeless." And as you were just saying the politicians don't necessarily do what they should, is that some commentary there as well?
Yeah, you know. That song is actually kind of a figment of my imagination. That's actually about a homeless man and a homeless woman. This guy is homeless and this woman is putting him down for being homeless. And then several years later the woman is homeless too. And then they meet and then the last verse is they kind of walk off into the sunset together. I don't really consider that song a political song, that song is more or less a romantic, well it's not romantic, but it's me telling a story.
This was your first record with Sanctuary, is that right?
Yeah that's right.
How did you get involved with them?
I made a bunch of records for a conglomerate called Universal. UMG, they are probably the biggest record thing. And they downsized or some people bought them or whatever and the guy we had been working with--well Audie had been working with--they let him go and he got a job at Sanctuary. He knew that Audie and I were gonna make a new record and he wanted to put it out. So when Audie passed away he called me and asked if I still wanted to make the record. And I said, "I guess so." And so he was working for Sanctuary at that time, they signed up a bunch of people. So I made a one-album deal with them.
Thinking about your sound in general, it's quite recognizable. And in many ways you've come to define a certain type of music. I'm curious if you can give me a little insight into how you developed your approach?
It's all an accident. When I was a young fella, playing bars with rock 'n' roll bands there in Oklahoma... I played rock 'n' roll in the Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Elvis Presley, Little Richard era, I was just a guitar player in the band, I wasn't the front man or singer or anything. Go ahead a few years to when I did start making records I went, "Well you know everything is real loud and in your face and very aggressive, and I think what I'll do is try to make it more..." I think they used the term "laid back" or "quieter" kind of music. Just so I'd be a little different than what was happening. Instead of me doing what everybody else was doing I just did the opposite. So I just kind of expounded on that.
And sort of in line with that, in what little has been written about you and what I gather from listening, you seem to really value simplicity and a straightforward mentality. Would you say that runs through your music and your writing and production, all that?
Yeah... sometimes I over-produce. I probably over-produce now more than I used to. Because with technology you can do that real easy now. And I'm a little bit more nervous than I used to be, and a little less relaxed. But still, it's not a style it's just kinda, you know I like things that are in the slot, easy to listen to. Other than just romping on it. When I was a young fella I used to romp on it. But so many people were so good at that I went, "There ain't no way I'm going to out-volume everybody or out hot-lick someone," or whatever. So I took the opposite approach, and there's been a few people like that.
And does that go along with your mentality of going with the first take?
Yeah, you know. I've cut a couple records where we cut and cut and cut until the musicians were screaming. But especially with the modern technology, no matter what you do you can fix anything now. Any idiot can make a perfect record, and I'm one of them. So you know after you do so many cuts you start loosing a little freshness, musicians actually get tired and want a new song. So I generally take about three takes on a song and it will be one of those three. But I have from time to time, not lately, done way too many takes and the musicians were trying to kill me.
And it would seem like you'd get a little more of that fresh energy on the first couple of takes.
Yeah you do. You're fresher, and it's new to you. And a lot of artists do that; try to get it in front. And it's real easy with modern technology to manufacture it. If the drums don't play right you can adjust them to where they do. You couldn't do that in those days.
Now in many people's eyes--musicians and fans alike--you've created some of the finer albums of our day, yet you often refer to your albums as "song writing demos." Why is that?
Well I think it's because I cut a lot of them at home. And sometimes I would make a demo and Audie would say, "OK, I like that song, lets get some real musicians in a real studio and go ahead and cut." And we'd go in and cut it and I never liked the slickness of it. Well sometimes I did. So I basically was making records for other musicians. It's the best way to hock songs. Because I was a songwriter and I thought, "Well, if my records get out there other musicians will have to hear my songs." That happened. Whereas if you are trying to get to somebody and get them to sing your song they wouldn't talk to you, you couldn't get past their secretary. So most of my albums I was making recordings for other musicians other than the general public. And that worked for me until all at once people started asking, "Who wrote that song?" And then they come back to me and that kinda scared me a little bit because I wasn't really trying to make a perfect record for radio play and consumption like that. I thought if I can get these songs out there then musicians will hear them and they'll cut them and they'll do a good version of them. So that's why I call them demos.
Interesting. You also refer to yourself sort of as a craftsman more than an artists. In what way do you mean that? In the production sense?
Yeah, because I'm an engineer. The modern studio, the digital audio workstation, you go down and buy it and it's already put together. The older studios, with big Ampex's and the big old boards and all the tubes, and all that kinda stuff, the different equalizers, compressors, and echo-chambers you had to wire all that up yourself; very few people knew how to do that. So I got into that, that was how I made my living for a while, as an engineer in different studios in L.A. in the '60s. So that's kinda why I got into that, and I really liked to do it. I always thought, "Well if I can't get a job playing the guitar or writing songs, I can get a job as an engineer." So when I started making my own records I just sort of applied my engineering deal, and sometimes I wouldn't even hire anybody else to do the engineering, I'd do all that. And a lot of people are doing that now.
Seeing as how so many people have covered your songs, and as you said you tend to think of yourself as a songwriter first, I'm curious what versions of your songs you may be particularly fond of?
Well let's see... A bunch of woman cut a song called "Cajun Moon" many years ago. Cissy Houston, who is Whitney Houston's mom, recorded "Cajun Moon" with a flute player that is dead now. And no one heard it. They sent me the record and she put it on somebody's album and that's where I first heard about Cissy Houston, and later on Whitney Houston became huge. And several other ladies recorded it, Maria Muldaur and another lady, I can't remember her name, she had a real good version of that song. Seems like a bunch of woman cut that song and all the versions are pretty good.
Are there any versions of songs out there that you don't really like?
No. As a songwriter, even if somebody attempts it... If you write a song it's really flattering when somebody else sings it. You go, "Wow man, they're signing my song." So yeah, I've heard some versions where I could tell ain't nobody gonna like it but me. But I was always so thrilled because they even took the time to cut the song that I didn't really bad mouth it, or mentally go, "Oh that's a terrible cut of that song."
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